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Post by woodsman on Apr 27, 2005 18:15:21 GMT -5
I have an interveiw next friday for a fish processing job on board the s.s. ocean Phoenix operating out of Dutch harbor, UnAlaska. Has anyone here ever done this kind of work before? I realize that it is definitly not the most glamourous job in the world and the contract is for 90 days straight 12-16 hours a day. But the minimum earnings stipulation would be about $9500 for completing the 90 day contract. I was just woundering what a typical day is like on board a ship like this? Do you think that this would be a good way to earn a grub stake for the year (even though you would have to be away from the homestead for the summer months)?
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Post by Chuck on Apr 27, 2005 18:37:34 GMT -5
I've never worked on a processor but I have known some who have. From all I've heard you will earn every cent. It is hard monotonous work. I have cleaned over 150 of my own salmon from my subsistence net and that was no fun. If you can handle it, it should set you up for a while. I wish you well. ALASKA TRAPPERSAlaska HOMESTEADING Journal
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Post by Freeholdfarm on Apr 28, 2005 16:21:00 GMT -5
I agree with Chuck (and I've never worked on one of the processing ships, either). My concern would be, make sure you know where all the safety equipment is, and know how to use it. The Gulf of Alaska can be a very dangerous place, and it's a rare year that one of the fishing boats doesn't go down or at least suffer major losses.
If you are very physically fit, though, it's a good way to get some cash reserves.
Kathleen
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Post by crazyski2694u on Oct 30, 2005 0:56:40 GMT -5
Yes i have worked on the S.S.Ocean Phoenix and it is very hard work although not unbearable but very demanding and physically and emotionally draining but the money in the end makes it worth it. I have never worked a job that was harder but some that were close but work on the Phoenix is tough but I am Addicted to it i guess it's fun in a weird twisted way
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Post by kasilofhome on Oct 30, 2005 11:10:23 GMT -5
Chuck, Did you have to do all 150 plus salmon in one year. Wow, that would mean that by law would your family size be 13. The Law is 25 for head of the house and 10 for each other member of the family. 25 for you leaves 125 for your dependents which is 12.5 which is where I come up with 13. I must say that I am a commercial fisherman and I take the heat from sport and subsistant people over the "shortage of fish" Yet each year we watch the abuse of the limit numbers by many. It is very upsetting. This summer f&g really nabbed alot of people for the abuses. One person was over a limit for clams. It made the news. Please explain your numbers. As I am quickly lossing respect for you. If it is true that you have abused the fishery your role of "leadership" should be questioned. The fines and loss of the PRIVILAGE to benifit from the fishery should be enforced to protect it for all.
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Post by Kristianna on Oct 30, 2005 13:42:05 GMT -5
Kasilofhome ~
Chuck is at his homestead with no current access to the internet so he will not be responding to your accusations any time soon.
As moderator, I do not appreciate your attack on anyone, certainly not the "leadership" of this site. How do you even know when this occurred? Chuck has lived in Alaska for a long time so who really knows what he was referring to.
Seems strange it took you 6 months to pick up on this.
Please try to be kind and respectful in your future posting.
Thanks.
K
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Post by Chuck on Jan 7, 2006 0:00:49 GMT -5
If I was fishing under personal use laws for the Kenai you would be right, however I wasn't. I was fishing under subsistence laws in Bristol Bay where there are no limits for salmon or most fresh water fish. If a single person can use 500+ salmon and not waste them it is well within the law. Any Alaska resident can go to any of the fresh water lakes and net all of the pike they can use or to the bay and get all the salmon they can use or give away. Our total take for the summer was just under 400, some of which were canned and shipped home. If you have any doubt just check with ADFG in Dillingham where all subsistence catches are recorded. I guarantee if I were abusing the system to that extent I would not put pictures out for the world to see much less write a true confession on the Internet. It is also a violation of law if you know of someone breaking game laws and not reporting them. For the record subsistence users state wide take only 2% of all fish and game.
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Post by Jenny on Jan 7, 2006 5:09:10 GMT -5
First, Kristianna, I want to thank you for your reply during our absence. Chuck and I are just getting to all the posts, but it takes awhile. Just saw this one tonight.
I know Chuck already responded, but I wanted to as well.
Kasilofhome~ Why did you wait until you knew that Chuck and I did not have access to the internet or this forum to make such inflammatory remarks? Announcements were made on the forum, and I think it was well known that we were not online, so this was sort of like shooting someone in the back, then running. I have noticed that you have not made another post on this forum since the one attacking Chuck for our subsistence set net fishing. I think your remarks were unfounded and inappropriate. You are welcome to join us, however, we do require that everyone at least be respectful.
Now, for everyone: That certainly doesn't mean that everyone has to agree, or dance around posts they don't agree with. Varying opinions are great. We want folks to come here and say what they think, as long as it can be done without blasting others. Don't drag people through the mud. If you think you just have get dirty with someone about an issue, send them a PM. What you do privately is none of our business. I think it was Wolfie who recently said she's a straight shooter. HOORAY! I like straight shooters, too. You know where you stand. Keeps things interesting and adds spice. But we just don't want anyone shooting anyone in the back or getting bloody on the forum.
Now, back to fishing: Fish and game laws are different in different parts of the state, and often change. Few places in the world have the numbers of delicious salmon as you find in the Bristol Bay area of Alaska. It's one of the few places that, I think, one can easily feed their family from subsistence. It can be done in other areas, but the abundance of fish in Bristol Bay is amazing, and as Chuck noted, any resident of Alaska can legally set out a net during the season and catch all the salmon they can use. You can't determine how many fish you will find in your net. Some days we caught 0, but other times we were very blessed. When we caught more in one tide than we could take care of that day, we shared with families who were not as fortunate, or who could not fish for various reasons. We never wasted any fish at all. While we lived there, we ate salmon daily year round. Much healthier, tastier and cheaper than food from the store. Before we left, we canned what remained in our freezer. We're in a pretty hungry area of the state now, so those jars of salmon that we have are a blessing, and a rare treat.
Only about 2% or less of all the fish and game in Alaska is taken by subsistence users, and, if I remember right, I think the numbers are about the same or maybe less for sport hunters. That leaves almost everything else harvested for commercial interests. I'm not here to get into a discussion of commercial use vs. sportsmen vs. subsistence users. I'm not at all down on commercial fishing. We have lots of fish here and it's good for the economy of Alaska. I'm just making the point that the fish one takes to feed their family on a subsistence permit barely puts a tiny dent in the numbers. Yes, I've heard of some folks abusing the system and selling their catch from a subsistence or personal use permit. That's wrong. It isn't good for anyone and they should be prosecuted. But few people have a true understanding of the needs and the lifestyle of those of us who really live in the bush and who rely on the resources to feed a family, trying to survive without grocery stores or "services".
Jenny
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Post by ugashikrobert on Jan 7, 2006 11:22:45 GMT -5
Kasilofhome: I live year round on the headwaters of the Ugashik River in Bristol bay and have had the use of a subsistence net permit for almost twenty years now. I don't know what hat you pulled your numbers out of for limits but my permits over the years have been anywhere from 300 to 600 a year for just sockeye for my wife and myself. I would post a copy of the permit but they have to be returned to Dillingham each year as the harvest records are on the permit itself. I live next door to a sport fishing lodge and see that side of it along with the commercial fishery in the summer down in the bay. Both sides seem motivated by a common denominator-greed. We take on the average of 50-75 sockeye only per year for smoking and will reduce that number the moment I think the run has a problem. The counting towers are only a 1/4 mile from our home so we have a pretty good feel for that. We are allowed to take silvers and kings on our permit but I do not. Now for the abuses and there are many. The most common abuse if you want to term it that for Sportsfisherman is the possesion limit bypass law that says any fish converted to a processed state like smoked, salted, or even frozen does not count in the possesion limit and the lodges along with a lot of Alaska residents use this as a loophole to send fish out in excess of the meaningless possesion limits that look very good on the regulations. The number you cited as a limit is meaningless as the real number is actually the size of your freezer or the limit of the plane flying them out. I've dealt with this at every level possible and submitted tons of photos of catch and release lodges releasing there fish into brown wetlocks. All you have to know is the fact that Game & Fish is primarly funded from non resident license revenue and will treat anything that limits that and the cascading revenue stream as a communist plot. The lodges or commercial sport fishing enities are not the only problem as the average greedy Alaskan will resist changing this law because it will deprive him of a full freezer to mail to his friends and relatives down south. And now for the commercial boys and girls. Check with Dillingham and you will find the highest percentage of subsistence permits belong to commercial permit holders who for some strange reason also need subsistence fish. I have seen commercial permit holders get a subsistence permit for every family member by falsifying info(They are granted by locals) and tie several subsistence nets together to increase there take that is then sold on there commercial permit. Instead of speculating about who breaks the law the most go to the Dillingham paper and look at the court records. For every convicted violation by a non commercial user like your clam example I will show you litterally hundreds by commercial users. They have even devolped a point system on convictions where they take your permit after x amount of violations. People are rarely cited for using there subsistence nets for commercial take because it is such a target rich environment that the limited enforcement people focus on the drift net fleet that also yields the largest return in confisticated equipment. I have also seem million dollar crab boat operators use there subsistence nets to stock there bait holds. There is a ton of abuse at every level of the subsistence thing. My wife and I are in a unusual position of not using any part of our area to financially justify our existence. I say that to qualify my next statement as a non-biased party. In the subsistence area which is ripe in abuse throughout its ranks the commercial fishing enity is the clear winner in documented convictions and probably further excells in the area of undocumented abuse. I will further state that if you lined our entire watershed with sportfishermen shoulder to shoulder like the Kenia they wouldn't have the effect in the entire season as what the big boys do with mono down in the bay in one tide. If we did line the shoreline with sportfishermen the economic impact would be about the same for the locals as the both the lodges and commercial fishing have a track record of funneling almost all of there profits out of area and the state. I will give the edge however slim to the commercial fishing intrests in that regard. At least in the Kenia the impact on the economy is more widespread from the sportfishing intrests than the commercial fishing intrests. As I stated in the beginning the common denominater on both sides of this is greed.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 7, 2006 12:40:58 GMT -5
I don't know what hat you pulled your numbers out of
They are the personal use limits on the Kenai. They have nothing to do with subsistence.
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Post by ugashikrobert on Jan 7, 2006 14:29:31 GMT -5
Chuck : My apologies as I checked an old copy of fishing regs and couldn't find any numbers that matched what was posted for the Kenai or elsewhere. When I made a comment like that without checking as far as I should of it tends to discredit everything I say. All I can say is it wont happen again. This is a controversial subject to begin with but my attitude on subsistence based on seeing it myself is one of total dissappointment. I could go into much deeper detail on any other aspect of my post but it would just offend people on both sides of the fence and that is not my intent. My intent was to document what we have seen and experienced and I went over the line in challangeing facts I was unsure of. Every thing else I mentioned in the post can be backed up by actual records or are the results of our personel observation.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 7, 2006 21:46:43 GMT -5
I think you did just fine you pretty much backed up what I said. Don't worry about it. You are welcome to say any thing on subsistence you want, I have some pretty strong opinions on that subject too.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 9, 2006 1:45:03 GMT -5
Another thing, Kasilofhome: Subsistence, in its truest form, is not a "PRIVILEGE", it's a God given RIGHT and a responsibility. Check out the Book of Genesis.
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