Peak Oil in Alaska

[alaskaman]

Given the thought of some of the worlds scientists that, the world has reached or is soon to reach it's peak capacity for oil production. And the fact that demand is continuing to rise. It is theorized that the age of oil will continue to decline untill some time around 2030 we will no longer be able to sustain our modern level of consumption. I am curious what kinda of life you that live in the Bush will have without oil. Do you believe Alaska with it's Long winters is Livable in an age without Chainsaws, Airplanes, Propane, and snow machines. Or given your experience would you consider moving to a warmer climate where one could live a more agricultural life style? Think 1850's Farm Stead

[wolfwoman]

"Do you believe Alaska with it's Long winters is Livable in an age without Chainsaws, Airplanes, Propane, and snow machines."

Yep, quite nicely in fact.
Wolfie

[alaskaman]

Could you give an example of the kind of life style you see without petro products. Like how to light your house without kerosene, or gas lights, How would you get around, how would you eat after you ran outa bullets, Black powder, etc.

[wolfwoman]

The same way people lived before they were discovered/invented. Granted, in some ways they make things easier, but in some ways they don't.
Lights: Animal fat candles
Get around: Walk/dogsled
Hunt: Bow & Arrow, knife, traps, snares
There are simplified alternatives to everything.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but there WERE people before they discovered oil and they lived just fine up here. I don't see an issue with doing it again, lots of people won't LIKE it, but sometimes things happen that way.

Wolfie

[Jenny]

I agree with you, Wolfie. I sure do like having a computer, oil lights, being able to fly into Anchorage for supplies a time or two each year. And Chuck sure does like having a chain saw and hauling in the wood with a snow machine. It's so much easier and faster than using an ax, then hauling things in with dogs. We've done that. It is a simpler life in many respects, but harder in many ways.
But, that said, and even though we do LIKE these conveniences, we would stay right where we are and just adapt if we had to. Sure wouldn't be easy by any stretch of the imagination, especially out here with three toddlers. Not sure if I'd really like getting THAT far back to basics. But, folks have done it for generations. If we had to go to that lifestyle suddenly, at first I'd probably whine more than I'd ever admit , but then I think I'd adjust and get with the program. Hard work builds character.

Jenny

[wolfwoman]

Jenny,
You put it much more nicely than I did, but that's my nature...lol I'm pretty much brutaly straight to the point, and ya know, if people don't like me, well there's others that do. You're right about that being WAY far back to basics, we invented things to make our lives easier and we like them, but also like ya said, there's that character thing.
Wolfie

[alaskaman]

Thanks for the feed back. Wofwomen straight shooters do not bother me in the least, I prefer it. Straight talk keeps me from trying to geusse at what a person is really trying to say. Let me kick it up a bit here on the subject of peak oil. I understand that it is available to live or survive in Alaska without cheap oil. The thing I am trying to understand is Taking into account the winters, are there more benefits to being in Alaska Post oil or would it be easier outside. I am not afraid of hard work just looking for differing opinions since I am pretty sure I do not know everything.

[ugashikrobert]

alaskaman:
We have lived the last seven years in very rural alaska with all of our electrical power needs supplied by solar and wind year round period. This includes all the appliances and goodies we had in the big city with the only exclusion being the monthy utility bill that would make good wallpaper at best. Fossil fuel dependency is stupid especially if you include the current price of the blood of our finest in the sand.
I problably won't live long enough to see the scenario you describe but would certianly like to use the experience I've gained in last twenty some years preparing for it. I have absolute faith that when the profits start to wane from the stupid smelly stuff there will be sufficient alternatives magically appear. Guess who owns the controlling percentage of solar production today?
We can put a man on the moon in less than a decade and but can't replace a 100 year old system that offers nothing but increasing profits to people who control it? Unfortunately the only way the American public will wake up is to sting them in the pocketbook. The only way quick alternates will surface is if big oil gets greedier than it has been. I'm not saying wind or solar is the answer but am saying there are better ways than fossil fuel that could be exploited if we focused on them instead on aiding big oil in continued record profits. I wouldn't mind a post oil Alaska but don't think it will be what you imply. Sometimes less can be better. If there is anyone in the real bush Alaska that is afraid of work they problably haven't seen there first weekend. One of the great things about Alaska is it seems to methodically grind up and spit out the non producers. Seems like the closer you get to mother nature the more similair the system.
To answer your question about winters I am looking at making hydrogen from surplus solar in the summer and use it for heating and cooking year round but its only half baked at this point. My point is there seems to be a lot of promising technology out there that never sees the market place. Don't confuse me with someone who knows a lot about it but I've reached my highly opinionated state on renewable energy by doing it with my own two hands and seeing it work.

[wolfwoman]

alaskaman,

I tell you what, I sure wouldn't want to be in the lower 48 once there's no oil. Most of those people down there will be going into panic mode once they realize that they can't flip a switch. Plus, I can't stand the heat, so living in the southern states would be an agony for me in the summers. I look at it like this, I can always get warm, once you're naked you just can't get an cooler. Believe me, I've lived in several southern states.

Before we moved here we did the same think many on this board are, talking to people and tryng to decide, where when what and how. Ugashikrobert has been a big help to me, especially with what he calls his 'out of control cabin'. I've learned a lot from others and I've leanred a lot by doing and screwing up. 40 below in a cabin with only partial insulation, a propane furnace and no wood stove was most certainly not a lot of fun.

And as bob said, there are alternative ways, pick up a copy of Mother Earth News, there's a ton of info in there about that sort of thing.

Wolfie

[Washkeeton]

Not to mention Back woods home and Countryside.

You also need to look at your animals and see which will be more self sufficient in the long run like we were talking about before. If i remember right isnt it you all, Jenny that has the goats? They are more cost efficient and easier care than a cow. They give good milk and you can do with it the same as what you can do with cows milk. They are able to eat the brush up here, cows cant and wont. Their milk is slightly lower in fat content and is actually good for you and really does taste great.

If you are also thinking you want to build talk more to Bruce. Check out the MSN chat site. I will have to pm you the web addy. I didnt see you on the list. Linda and I copy and pasted a whole discussion from Bruce cause he had to repete himself so many times. You want effecient and cost effective that is the house. Granted your family is bigger than his.

He is like Bob in the since he has all solar for the house. He and Bob are the two solar folks that know their stuff.

You can also fix your house up fine to be able to weather a lot of the comming problems. Look around you. See what can be done. I have been making changes to this place in case I cant ditch it and build what I want further out. There are options.

Also another thing you want to think about is that no matter where you go in the lower 48 there are people. You cant get away from them. The free range game what there is of it down there will be gone quickly. You have big cities like New Orleans that when there is a crisis there will be refugees. You need to look at what will or will not in reality terms be your survival rate. I agree the game will go fast from probably willow to the kenai in a crisis but there is a whole lot more back woods than just to willow. Just a few more points to ponder. Pm me. Washkeeton.

[pipedreams]

Alaska is a BIG state and the things that are involved with day to day survival are vastly different from one part of the state to another. I think the tradionally heavily populated areas along the coast are a LOT more do-able than the interior.....Sure it "can" be done there too...but there's only so much time and effort most folks can dedicated to such things on a daily basis. Living in the interior has always involved more time and effort in these areas...I'm just not sure when the point of "too much" would be reached.

One example................right now it takes about 2-3 weeks to cut, haul, split and stack the 10-12 cords of wood I need to get through a winter........WITH chainsaws and pickup trucks....I can only imagine that it would take 2-3 MONTHS to do the same by hand....and I just don't have that kind of time to devote to firewood every year.

[Chuck]

For those in AK who can pick up the Anchorage Station 650 AM KENI , there will be a special oil debate. Sounds like it should be interesting. Not sure what stations broadcast it elsewhere in AK and the country. The show is Coast to Coast. If you check out the internet news site, World Net Daily, you'll find a story about it.

[wolfwoman]

pipedreams said:

One example..............right now it takes about 2-3 weeks to cut, haul, split and stack the 10-12 cords of wood I need to get through a winter........WITH chainsaws and pickup trucks....I can only imagine that it would take 2-3 MONTHS to do the same by hand....and I just don't have that kind of time to devote to firewood every year.

You're absolutely correct, and it would be an incredibly long and tough job, BUT what did people do BEFORE they had chainsaws and such. One think I don't think people realize is that if we are without oil again, you will HAVE more time because for one, you won't be commuting to work everyday (those that do now), and there will be other things that you tend to and do that no longer require your time that can be used for other things.

I think I just made NO sense ;D But it is early.

Wolfie

[cookiecache]

I think Alaska would be the BEST place to be if we run out oil.

There is lot's of game to eat, fish in the rivers, and wood to burn for heating the o'l cabin. Just imagine living in a place where water must be pumped from deep wells. Or Living on a farm within 100 - 200 miles of a large city filled with armed starving people (you can only shoot so many before they get you).

BUT, I used to work in oil exploration. Yes, we will run out of gasoline one day, but there is enough natural to last for about another 200 years at the present rate of consumption. Natural gas burns clean, but it cost more to handle because it must be transported under pressure. You can't just fill a supertanker with it.

Let's also remember biodiesel. This fuel can be produced for as long as we can grow food.

In short, we are not going to run out of fuel. We will make very small changes.

[Jenny]

cookiecache said:

I think Alaska would be the BEST place to be if we run out oil.

There is lot's of game to eat, fish in the rivers, and wood to burn for heating the o'l cabin. Just imagine living in a place where water must be pumped from deep wells. Or Living on a farm within 100 - 200 miles of a large city filled with armed starving people (you can only shoot so many before they get you).

Would it be easier to deal with unprepared city folks, or dealing with the weather and cold climate here? Guess it depends on your personality. No matter what, I think I would be way better off up here. An ice age may change my mind, but then I don't think things would be much better down south in that situation. Really would be lots of folks in panic mode then. Yep. I still think Alaska is the best place to be most of the time.

Jenny