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Post by moosehead on Jul 16, 2005 5:41:55 GMT -5
I just found this forum and thought I would join it as i have tons of questions... I very seriously want to make a move to Alaska... But I dont want to jump head first without getting some advice first.
I would like some feed back from people who have already homesteaded or are living in alaska right now or have lived there in the past...
I have been looking at many maps and looking for places to purchase ( cant get a homestead anymore , so i either have to purchase publicly auctioned lands or buy from private persons) the type of land im looking for is very very very remote... but all the lands that ive seen for sale are either subdivisions or are not close to any water sources at all.
So one of my questions is how far from a town do the locals consider remote? a few miles? ten miles? thirty miles?
Is it common to have neighbors in the ( remote) homesteads... or walk up on tourist while your hunting? or have tourist actually walk up on your property?
also I want to be self sustaining to a point... but i know I would need some type of small income for the things i cant or dont have time to make myself....(like purchasing gas for the snowmachine) so what would be a good way to a have a small income while living in the wilderness? do shops in towns buy hand made items like leather goods? can selling furs supply an income? Do people trade things or is everything based on the dollar and cash money?
would getting a dog sled and sled dogs really be worth it? I currently have working cattle dogs and they eat a ton compared to pet dogs as they are extremely more active on a daily basis... the only difference is here i can buy bulk dog food from the feedstore... and im sure i wouldnt be able nor have the funds to do that once im up there....
and also i have noticed that alot of the places for sale up there are very very small places like normally around 4 or 5 acres... so im wondering what laws are there against me cutting trees down that arent on my property... 5 acres of trees i know will not be enough to supply any longterm heat source to rely on for years to come.
thanks a ton in advance
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Post by Washkeeton on Jul 16, 2005 12:14:23 GMT -5
The first question i have is have you ever been in extreme temperatures like 50 to 70 below 0. If not you might plan a trip up here in the dead of winter Dec or Jan and visit the Fairbanks area. When you live out that far not only will you be dealing with these temps but you will be cutting wood, hauling water and using an out house or something simular. you will only have about 3 hours of sunlight also. It is not warm at 70 below in the out house. Been there and done that.
I have a list of remote land sites because i am toying with the idea of going back to the bush. Remote is where you want to feel you are. To some remote is no neighbors for 5 miles but the nearest town is by car 30 to 40 miles. Others feel being dropped in the back-o-beyond so far from any human existance is remote. It is up to you how far you want to be.
Depends on the dogs if you want a dog team. there is meintence things with the sled, lines, and harnesses you will have to have the supplies and knowledge. I have had high meintence ak huskies since i have been in ak. they are fast but not strong. you want the more strong and less fast. You need to look into a freight sled. You need to look up on your web search Canadian Eskimo Dogs. They go further, eat less, run slow, and can pull around 75 lbs per vs the 45 lbs per an ak husky can pull. PM me when you want the web sites.
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Post by moosehead on Jul 17, 2005 0:33:09 GMT -5
ive been to some really really cold places and have actually been stranded in russia twice during the winter. ill pm you for the websites. and thanks for the info on the dogs.
yeah 5 miles to the nearest neighbor and 30 miles to a town by car would be ok to me, i just havent seen any land for sale that was that remote... alot of the places ive seen were subdivisions and by the looks of it most of those lots have been bought up...
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Post by jamescm on Oct 12, 2005 12:53:54 GMT -5
Hi, I saw your posting on this forum, and would love to talk with you about a new TV series we're making. We're the producers of the successful ABC series Super Nanny. We're now making a major new documentary series for Discovery, which is aiming to show the realities of taking on a new life in the wilderness. It's tapping into the escapism we all feel when we look out of our office window - could I lead a fully self-sufficient life in the country? - and then filming with people who are being courageous enough to make that move, and do it for real. It's all about the improved quality of life, and the challenges we must go through to achieve that. I'd love to talk the series through with you, as your plans to move to Alaska may fit in perfectly. This will be a series of 3 x 1 hour programmes, with a different family featured each week - all will be leaving their life in the city to take on a new challenge and lifestyle in a remote part of the States. We are aiming to be filming from later this year, and film on and off all the way until next summer, so we can get a sense of the challenges - and rewards - that each new season bring. Each programme will feature a local wilderness expert, who will be on hand to act as a mentor and guide to our featured families when they first move to their region. It would be great to talk it all through - my e-mail is james.christiemiller@ricochet.co.uk or if you let me know the best numbers to call you, I can give you a buzz. You can view all of our programmes at www.ricochet.co.ukMany thanks for your time - I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, James Christie-Miller
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Post by Kristianna on Oct 12, 2005 15:05:17 GMT -5
James ~
My family is not in the wilderness, yet, and we may never be in Alaska, but I can tell you for certain that I would not do this with my family.
I have seen other reality shows like Super Nanny and I can see how the shows are manipulated to show the bent of the producers. I've also read about this manipulation as participants in these reality shows come clean afterward.
And as another member said, the last thing he wants is a newscrew on his door step.
K
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Post by bushman on Nov 6, 2005 2:36:41 GMT -5
OK you guys an Gals, There's plenty of land here in Alaska,just not looking in the right places,and most can be bought on owner financing,as banks don't like funding bare land,especially in the bush.Try entering keywords:Alaska Remote Properties,and you'll find plenty,one is under that same name,and his name is Bernie Vocker,and he and his wife Barbara are really great people.As far as what to do for money,and lets face reality here.I can't count the people that have come up here with no money,no real plan of any kind and expect to live off the land.IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN,OK?As has been said,ya get up in the Fairbanks bowl,and it gets cold,and I mean cold,heck,I live out here near Glenallen and it get's minus 40.One thing to remember when buying bush land up here,Most of it is subdivded and on a map someone from down in Amerika might think,oh,a subdivision cause the map shows roads etc.,there ain't no roads,it has been platted for roads,but trust me when I say,in our lifetime,you will never see a road out there.Most of these tracts are roughly in the 5 acre range,which may not seem like alot in Oklahoma,but it's more than you'll ever use in the bush,and as far as running out of wood for heating etc,unless you get lazy,that will never happen either,plenty of dead and down wood after the pine beetle attack a few years ago and I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for cutting up dead and down wood,ever. I live 15 miles from the nearest power line,but have a Sat dish for TV and PC and cell phones work where I am.15 miles doesn't seem far,but trust me again,try doing it in cold weather on a snow machine.and the float plane ride from civilization,again 15 miles away,is 100.00 with groceries. I have never seen a tourist this far out and ya know,I would welcome anyone because if you don't think a visitor is a welcome surprise,well,live in the bush a year andyou'll find out. As for dogs,I have 2 as an early warning system for bears,YES BEARS,and they get big,and they are carniverous creatures,and more importantly,they are curious creatures by nature.They will be there sooner or later,for any of a number of reasons,but more than likely because of curiousity because there's someone new in town or they smell food.I am not trying to scare you,just make you aware.It's cheaper for me to use a snow machine and an ATV than to keep sled dogs that eat alot. Save that money and buy a 44 mag pistol,and if you forget anything anyone ever tells you,remember that.Only a fool goes into the bush without a 44,because in the bush,you cease to exist as the top of the food chain. As for money,God love ya for even asking,most as I said,don't. Plan on working at least as most of us bush dwellers in the summer or winter,one or the other,and it seems that summer is it for most,as that's when Alaska is awake the most.Check my other post about fish processing jobs,but anymore they have Walmarts too,there is always a job here,and yes,everyone barters here also.I make items to sell online in the winter,and do ok,spare food money I call it. I keep reading about food and how to get it and where etc,and how much. I don't know how much you eat,so as has been said,figure it out. I see where one guy pays 15% to a bush supplier and that may work for him,but money is to hard to come by,so I prefer to gointo town and shop at Walmart,yep,Walmart.Take all your goodies to the bush lane checkout,they ain't got that in Oklahoma huh.They will pack it and ship it to you if your way out for less than 15% and you get it the next day most the time.Take the meat with you in a cooler.I just box it all up and drive back out to the seaplane base where I leave my truck,and they fly me and my goodies home.In the winter,I snow machine out to the truck. I suplement my food stuffs with moose,or caribou,and plenty of Salmon and fish,frozen and smoked. Frozen you say,yes.if you live where there is perma frost,you can build that underground freezer,but you'll still end up like the rest of us sooner or later.and that means propane.As in in propane fridge and stove and lights,and maybe like me,a generator so I can keep up with the rest of the world,WHEN I WANT TO.Yep,They fly the propnae in too,or I haul it in winter. I live in a 16x20 cabin with a loft,heat rises,very cozy in winter.it's easy to heat with wood,smaller is better when your heating it. As for water.I live on a lake,and take it out of that source,so find land on or near water.These lakes are pure and clean,but I still use a filter for drinking water. Sorry I have rambled on and forgive me if I seemed to outspoken.I just want you to make it,and not get here and get broke like so many have,because they had no idea,this place ain't Amerika,This is Alaska,Good luck,Bushman
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Post by bushman on Nov 6, 2005 2:44:50 GMT -5
As for the news crew,your welcome at my door,bring food,propane,gas,and money and we'll talk.It's all about survival,have a great week,Bushman,,and I ain't no Cheechako,ha ha ha
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Post by Kristianna on Nov 7, 2005 16:16:56 GMT -5
Bushman ~
Thank you for all of this information. It is quite helpful to know these things. Really, that is the information one needs if they plan to make the move to Alaska.
Kristianna...still wanting to move to Alaska!
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Post by Stumpy on Nov 7, 2005 17:21:30 GMT -5
Bushman,
Lots of good info thanks.
Do you park your vehicle near the road and ATV or Snowgo to your property? If so I have a few questions as I was wondering about that. Do all of the land parcels have easements to allow this? Are there paths cut that are agreed upon trails? Bush law that allows folks to traverse property? Can you build some structure for your vehicle? How does it fare out in the elements for the winter? Any issues with vandals?
Thanks, Sean
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Post by ugashikrobert on Nov 8, 2005 11:57:07 GMT -5
Moosehead: After reading your posts and the responses I wanted to add a few things. It is my guess that the biggest reason for failure up here is not the day to day hardships but money. Most people that want to give Alaska a shot can endure the hardships or at least think they can. That part is mostly attitude and with a positive one you can overcome a lot of inexperience but money doesn't grow on trees. I resent the attitude that just because you choose to live in the bush it owes you a living. If your living can be done without infringing on others fine but I haven't seen that part done very well. If you are in a truly remote place chances are the tourist type income you will get is through some form of guiding and it is hard to do that without disrupting others. The only plus of a local succeeding at guiding is there is the possibility that some of the money will stay in the local economy. The only other option is to become a ward of the State and live off from grants like the majority of bush residents do today. Look for yourself and see just how many true year round residents you can find in areas with abundant fishing and hunting that are not road accessable or close to a population center that do not sell wildlife or take some form of welfare. People that are just making it usually have some form of guiding supplemented by trapping but there existence is Spartan at best. Not many movers and shakers from the bush on Wall Street the last time I checked. My point is if you do not come out here financially secure you will have a very difficult time surviving the economics. You should plan that part the most carefully unless you can find another area that needs more attention based on input from people who have actually done it. The problem is most of the people who have done it are far less accesable than the people that have failed at it. The 2nd biggest issue is choice of area. I think choosing an area just because it is remote is a mistake unless isolation without good hunting, fishing and trapping is your goal. I've seen a lot of people choose a location because it was all they could find. Its my opinion if you can't do as much of what Alaska has to offer why bother? Look very carefully at what the real conditions are that you will have to tolerate. Not many places where you can have all the salmon runs all the species to hunt and everything to trap but it is worth your time to find the best available because you are about to make a huge investment in time and money and spend a good part of your life devolping it if its done right. The only exception is if you have a boat or plane to access other places. You can't go out far enough because no matter how pristine it is when you buy it won't be by the time your really ready to live there full time.
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Post by bushman on Nov 10, 2005 3:45:14 GMT -5
Hey sean, I park my truck at the seaplane base,actually,a guy with a couple of planes and I have never had any vandal problems,but then,I drive a 14 yr old truck,nice,nut 14 yrs old.Why would you need a newer one?,and I never leave anything worth taking in it anyway.Some bush dwellers leave their vehicles at a trail head along the road I have heard,but I prefer to leave mine close to the plane in a place I trust.Just cause this is Alaska doesn't mean there isn't felons here.As for traversing lands.Much of the bush has trails,but if you notice on maps of property you might be interested in,it will show platted roads,or easements and you have the right to use that area.Most bush moving as I call it is done in winter anyway,as it is easier to get around with snow machines,so use that time to develope a nice trail for spring and summer with a ATV using your GPS.That should keep you off other peoples land and limit tearing up needlessly any state or federal land. In relation to what Robt said.I live on a lake,BUT,it has no Salmon.but as an Alaskan,I can and you could too,fish subsistance for Salmon in the allowed rivers,it's called Dip net,and ya basically stand in the river with a huge net and wait.Gotta run,Generator's getting low on gas,I can hear it sputter,take care,Bushman
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Post by smwon on Nov 10, 2005 14:33:10 GMT -5
ugashikrobert... that was very good. I think you have hit it on the head. I'd love to move back to Alaska but income is such a strong issue. I just can't afford it...
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Post by ugashikrobert on Nov 11, 2005 9:24:45 GMT -5
I really hope my post didn't come across as negative because it sure wasn't intended that way. Another biggie I overlooked is your health. Nothing can get you out of the bush faster than health issues. Several Doctors have told me I shouldn't be living where I do and I told them likewise and came back. I just wish I had the benefit of hearing from someone in a candid manner on the reality's of life in the bush before I made the plunge. I should of added its not been an easy journey but wouldn't have it any other way. Besides I can always join the rest of the sheeple in the land of taxes,traffic and brown air. I just don't know what an old retired person does in a urban area without a lot of bail money.
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Post by Washkeeton on Nov 11, 2005 23:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by wolfwoman on Nov 19, 2005 20:04:45 GMT -5
You folks really need to listen to Bob, I've been cooresponding with him for quite some time now and he knows his stuff.
Hubby and I (and the teenage kids) moved up here 5 years ago to Los Anchorage, from there we moved to the Palmer/Wasilla area, from there we moved to Chickaloon. As we go we are getting more and more AWAY from people and populated areas and we love it.
We lived for 1.5 years in a cabin with no electricity, no running water and a winter with really crappy propane heat (actually the heat was fine, it was the lack of insulation that made it crappy) and we survived almost 6 weeks of 40 degrees BELOW zero weather in that cabin. Oh, the kids moved out when we moved to the Palmer/Wasilla area...lol
Now we've moved into a trailer next to a little general store that we manage and run, and once our bills are paid off, we are moving on even more remote than lil ole Chickaloon. Don't know where yet, but hubby, me and the eight freight huskies are outta here!
There's more to the story here and there if anyone's interested, Bob knows some of it and he's been a great help to me.
Everyone take care!
Wolfie
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