Goats

[Washkeeton]

Question for Chuck and Jenny??

Do you all have goats? If so, what?? How well do they fair out there?? and what do you feed them?? In the winter??? thanks

[Jenny]

I was thinking today about posting something about goats. We had goats when we lived here before, but ate them before we left for two years. We moved back in June and we're planning to get more just as soon as we can find some. Now isn't the best time, apparently, to find goats, as most folks thinned out their herds so they wouldn't have to feed goats they didn't want to keep over the winter.

We're looking for some pregnant does to fly out here. Preferably, not tooooo pregnant. Would be stressful for the goats, and if they're too far along they would be awfully big to squeeze into carriers and onto a plane. If you know of anyone between the Mat-Su area on down to the Kenai/Homer/Seward end of AK, let me know. We're looking for dairy goats, but not Nubians. I've heard they don't adapt as well to change, and I'm sure that there would be major adjustments for any goats moving out here. Don't want Boer (sp?) goats again, either. They're good for meat, but not for milk. Although I have heard that Boer /alpine crosses are excellent milkers.

When we first moved out, we brought two experienced pack goats. LaMancha/Alpine, and a LaMancha/Saanen. They were great, and adapted wonderfully to life in the bush. We used them to pack all of our stuff when we moved here. Our land is about a mile from the lake where the planes have to land. When they weren't out with us, we kept them under a tarp strung between trees. They were fine with that. They lived completely on browse year round and were very healthy. During the winter, they would often follow us around, or take off on their own on our trails to find browse. When Chuck was out cutting firewood, he always hauled in the tops of the trees for the goats. We also gave them some pea vine we dried from the garden, as well as other goodies from the root cellar. They loved beets and anything else we'd give them. We also put up hay from out here for them. I don't think it's the best quality, so we mainly did it for bedding. But, they thought it was a special treat, especially if they could steal it from the dogs

Later we decided to get Boer goats for meat. I tried milking them, but, after they fed their babies, I usually could only get about 1/4 cup each milking, so it wasn't worth the effort. Even when they weren't nursing any longer, I still only got just enough milk to make me crave more But, we weren't expecting milk, so that was fine. Except when they were pregnant and nursing, they ate browse like our pack goats. During the summer we have quite a bit of grass. They ate some, but preferred browse

I know that many, many people disagree with this way of raising animals. Some people also think all cats should be declawed and kept in the house, and if you don't, you're abusing your cat. Well, I disagree. Our goats were the healthiest animals I've ever seen. When we got our 2 year old buck, he was the flabbiest, most worn out looking thing you've ever seen. When he first arrived, we wanted to breed our does, so we let him run with them. Well, that run didn't last long. When he started chasing them, they started running around the goat house with him in hot pursuit. After two laps (it's a small house), he was huffing and puffing so hard I thought he'd have a heart attack. He forgot all about the does and slept the rest of the day! Our healthy, strong girls just looked at him, then went back to browsing. I can imagine what they must have been thinking. ;D

I have talked with some goat folks who believe the way we raise goats is ideal, but others think it's horrible not to raise your animals on primarily a grain diet. I think a natural diet for any animal is best. We are certainly not experts. Haven't had very many goats at all. But, I know that the animals we've had have been the healthiest, hardiest animals I've ever seen. And it's because, after a short while, they get close to what would be a diet their ancestors had in the wild. I would not be worth it for us to spend a fortune flying out high priced junk food for animals, then fly out expensive medicines to keep them "healthy".

Now, when goats in the wild eat a wild diet, they also produce plenty of milk for their kids, wean them naturally, then they dry up until they have more kids. When domestic goats eat a natural diet, they will not produce as much milk as a grain fed goat. I'm sure that even our Boers would have produced much more milk (although nothing like a dairy goat), had we been feeding them mostly grain. We did increase their feed, but they still ate mostly browse.

The homesteader nearby, Bud, has raised goats in the bush for 50 years or more. He does fly out a relatively small amount of feed for them just before kidding, and while milking. They also browse. He keeps the kids with the does for about 3 weeks. Then he separates them at night. In the morning, he milks the doe, then lets the kids run with her and nurse during the day. Then separates them again each night. He only milks his does in the morning until she weans the kids. After they're weaned, he starts milking twice a day. He's had mostly Alpines, and said he averages about a quart of milk per doe per day for himself. So, when he had a family of six to feed, he had to keep more does milking at any given time, but his feed bills were next to nothing most of the time, his goats were healthier, and produced better quality milk.

Just my non-expert opinion

Jenny

[Washkeeton]

Basically then on the last uncleared acre I have it could be done to have goats and let them browse. I still should be able to get milk and go on. I am looking at starting with 2 goats and increasing to 4 later on so I can have cheese and stuff. I dont know how large of an area they will need to browse. I am sure I will need to supplement. I have quite a few friends that do what your neighbor does by pulling the babies at night and milking in the morning. This way you dont have to buy supplemental baby feed also.
I have been looking at the alpines and thinking also of the boers thinking if i cross them i should have some good meat and milkers. I love the antics of the alpines. I am ready to start dealing with them now also. I am sure they would be as nutty as the rest of my crew here.
How large of an area did you let yours out to browse on?

I am planning to decrease my chickens to a handelable amount. I am going to get some to breed for meat and some to breed for eggs. I will let my geese out to browse and there by i should be able to cut down on the feed I buy. My turkeys are just stupid and think I will either eat or sell them. I am also looking to start with rabbits either this summer or next. figure if I have a large garden and able to make my own replaceable food I should be set right?? Just a thought and a dream.

[Jenny]

We're also going to try to get 2 pregnant does this spring. It won't be all the milk our family needs, but will be a good start. We'd like to work up to 4 or 5 milkers. That should provide all of our milk much of the year, and have enough from some treats of cheese. Again, not all we want, but a treat. I think 4 or 5 goats to milk would be all I could handle, at least while our boys are still small.

Our goats just roamed wherever they wanted, except our garden. It's pretty wide open here for them to go where they like. Mostly they stayed in our "yard", at least the immediate area of our house and outbuildings, which is probably about 3 acres. I'm sure they wouldn't need that much. It's kind of like a candy store for goats out here.

We tried rabbits once. When Chuck went into town, he was going to just get 2 does and a buck, but the woman kept GIVING him more rabbits. I think he came back with 4 adults and 3 babies. They ate us out of house and home. He came back with just a couple of bags of rabbit food. We thought we had prepared very well to feed them from the garden ------- LOTS of pea vine, and the root cellar was bulging. By March that year our cellar was empty, so we had to eat the rabbits.

We had some California meat rabbits and some Rex's. The meat rabbits at WAAAAYYYY more tha the Rex's. We should have known better than to get meat rabbits after our experience with meat chickens. They were terribly aggressive eaters, too. Fine when they're free ranging, but not fine when you have to feed them. Also, we found that when our meat chickens free ranged, they weren't any more meaty than our barred rocks, buff orpingtons, and Rhode Island reds. We also had a variety of others, but those were our main birds. (you're right; turkeys are stupid )They just ate more, shoved the other chickens out of the way when we did put food out for them, and chased out cat off her mice kills. Our Californians had very sweet dispositions, but were sure aggressive eaters. We'd love to have rabbits again if we could find a way to feed them without flying food out for them. We just can't grow enough to feed them here. I think feed is pretty inexpensive, so if you're on the road system, I'd think you could do well with them by growing some, and supplementing the rest.

[longrider]

I have a wonderful friend down in Missouri that has a dairy farm. Goats out the wazzoo! she goes by the name of Ozark Jewels. She buys, sells, and breeds goats of top quality all day long and all night long.

Emily knows everything and yet is as humble a woman as you ever hope to meet. check her website out at www.freewebs.com/ozarkjewels/index.htm

Shes knee deep in new kidds right now and has limited time on the computer but she does answer her emails.

[matata]

Just remember when you raise goats....the way you're raising your goats is a much healthier way to raise them...but it is not the way to get good tasting milk. The milk will taste like what the goat eats. This is why people prefer to raise the goat on a grain diet. If the intake is controlled in this way, the milk is also controlled. I raised goat for 18 years for show, milk, meat and pleasure. I miss them dearly and hope to get a few after I get settled again. I raised French Alpines, Oberhasli, Saanen & La Mancha. I will never own a Nubian or Toggenburg. Nubians are the noisiest goat breed in the world...they are big babies and constantly complain about everything in life! It's true...really!!! And toggs have the most goaty tasting milk...just not to my liking at all. The biggest milker is the Saanen if you want quantity. The nubian gives the most butter fat if you want to get into cheese or butter making. The French Alpine is the most middle line of the breeds. I would get about one and a half of a ice cream pail twice a day from one Alpine. That's PLENTY of milk for me. ) I even made lots of goat milk cheese that is fantastic, too. Like I said, I miss my goats!

[matata]

Oh, yeah, I forgot....if you let the buck/s run with the does, the milk will taste like them, too. Been there, done that...won't do it again. )

[naturerules1]

I have been trying to find out about goats too...You all make it seem like we may not be able to find them. Is there no livestock auctions in the Anchorage or Wasilla Area? When would be the best time to aquire them? Thanks Cynthia& Robert

[naturerules1]

I almost forgot!!! What about Chickens? Are they hard to get there? Thanks Cynthia & Robert

[matata]

To find breeders of registered goats in Alaska ask the person who is running the dairy goat club in the state...
Alaska Dairy Goat Association
Carol Hepler, HC 34, Box 2195, Wasilla, AK 99654
[phone]
[e-mail]

[matata]

An online page to read interesting facts on goats....
adga.org/facts.htm

[naturerules1]

Thanks Matata, I figured I would find out somehow once I arrive, but this helps alot! Cynthia

[matata]

I know a couple of ladies up there that raises goats. One down on the peninsula just out of Soldotna raises the milk goats. Another lady lives up in the Wasilla area and she raises pygmies. There are goats up there...just have to look for them. But I would recommend to think ahead and ship your own goats up there. Not only to bring in new blood...but then you know you'll find some when you're looking for them. I have had baby goats flown to me from across the states...and they just ship real nice in a dog carrier.

[Washkeeton]

All you goat folks can expand on this one. There is a lot of CL in the goat lots up here. It is an infection that happens when the females are stressing and breakout in a large pus type wound. I use to have a web site on exactly what it was but I think it went down with my last computer to never recover land. I would be very cautious about getting goats up here. Besides I agree with the blood issues. There has been a lot of inbreading here in ak because of the limited number of goats avail to breed with. Just some things that I have learned. I am planning to check into having some shipped up here from the lower 48 if I get some. Due to the reasons mentioned above.

[matata]

CL can be found in any gender and doesn't really have anything to do with stressing. Stressing does make it show faster...but it's not because of stressing. *IF* it is handled correctly you can eradicate it from your herd quite easily and never have it again. The thing to really, really watch out for is Johne's disease. <pronounced yo knees> That is a wasting disease similar to what the white tail deer have in the midwest. It is a brain parasite that will kill your herd...since it is passed thru the feces and when the other animals eat anywhere where that sick animal has pooped...they get it too. There is no cure for this.. and it's a nasty thing to have in your herd.