Goats

[Washkeeton]

How do you eradicate CL and if you have web sites on both problems I know I would appriciate it. I am sorry I did know both sexes could get it but I figured that if I posted it that way that it would strike a cord in someone and they would know what I was talking about. I couldnt remember what the actual infection was called. Thanks matata

[silveraurora]

There are lots of great goat owners in Alaska! Many have flown up quality animals from the lower-48 to improve their herds. I raise registered Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats, I hand milk, am on DHI milk test, and test negative for CAE and Johne's annually. I have a herd of over 30 registered ND's and have carefully chosen all of my senior animals from the best herds in the country. I have the #2 One Day Test milking doe for the breed in the US!! It cracks me up that some people think we're all backwards up here and inbreeding from poor stock - nothing could be further from the truth! There's a great email list for Alaskan residents only called Alaska Goat Owners at yahoogroups. If you own goats in Alaska please think about joining!

[silveraurora]

There is also a great resource for small, mini, dwarf, and pygmy type goats at the Alaska Mini Goat Cache Club's website at
www.springpromisepygmies.com/Minigoats/ak_club1.htm

I myself raise Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats. I found that for folks in remote locations, their size as adults is still small enough to fly out in a Cessna or other bush plane in a large dog crate. The kids are so small, several fit into a Medium crate and that flies out easily to the bush too, saving allot of expense on shipping costs.

The problem I see with the purchase of ANY goat is that people don't often look seriously into the amount of milk production the dam of the potential kids give nor do they do research on what the sire's dam actually milked - having someone 'say' that their goat gives a half gallon a day..well, WHEN? In the first week, the first month, 5 months after freshening..... and is this a verified amount such as that done by an actual milk tester weighing the milk and sending in the records to a testing facility or orgranization? A woman I know went and bought a very nice Nigerian Dwarf as she was told it was a 'good milker' - now just what IS a good milker?! The goat gave her a few cups a day. That is NOT a good milker, but perhaps to the person selling it it was a good milker for the lack of comparison I suppose. That can happen, and it's no fault of the seller nor the buyer because I don't think either did the research online to find out what a good doe of this breed should produce. For example, my best milker on her 3rd lactation produced 1016 pounds of milk in 290 days. It takes 2 pounds to make a quart. The doe is 21" tall at the shoulder. So, over 9 months+ time, she produced an AVERAGE of 3.5 pounds a day - that's almost 2 quarts, or a half gallon, of milk every day. Now, since I'm on full milk test, I can tell you that on one day she milked 6.6 pounds, breaking the all time - one day milk test record for the breed - that's more than 3 quarts of milk in one day. When she was bred for several months already, her last test weight was 2 pounds - which is one quart for the day. So, you can see...... in the beginning she was producing many pounds of milk in a week and towards the end no where near as many. That's the way goats are! While my does are raising and feeding their kids for 8-12 weeks, I milk my does both morning and night. I'm taking the extra that they are producing. I should also say that the above doe has produced 4 kids both this year and last year and is in excellent overall condition with plenty of topline fat.

Another interesting thing about Nigerian Dwarf goats is that they have the highest butterfat and protein content of any of the main ADGA dairy goat breeds. My girls average between 6.0 and 7.0 percent butterfat - the other big breeds average 4.0 to 4.5% butterfat. This means that you get more cheese per pound of milk. We produce our own cheeses including cheddars, Mozzarella, Ricotta, Feta, and dry cheeses. We get far more yeild per gallon of milk than any of the goat book recipes say we will, simply because the breed is known for high butterfat and high protein content in it's milk.

ND's don't take up much room, and they are easier for children to hold and lead than a large goat. The large goats are good for pack goats but ND's can't help you out there too much, although they could carry a small pack. You can keep more ND's in a box stall than you could large goats, so that means if you keep 3 or 4 in that stall, you can have them freshen 3 or 4 times, so you have a good quantity of milk all year round.

Just some neat information about the breed, I love them dearly and feel lucky to be able to have a wonderful herd of them.

[Jenny]

Wow! You've almost convinced me that ND goats would be the way to go. We've just committed to two other pregnant does, and are having someone else look at another herd for us. Wish we could fly in and do it ourselves, but flying is way too expensive for us to do that. Just having to take the word of a few folks we trust. If/when we get set up out here better so that we can keep bucks separated, I'll sure consider the ND goats. That butterfat is what's making my mouth water! Oh, I just love cheese! Maybe in 4 or 5 years when our oldest is old enough to do some milking, (hopefully) we'll do something like that. Thanks for the information. Also, thanks for setting the record straight about folks up here flying in new blood from down south. I've spoken with several folks who have either done it themselves, or bought from folks who have done it.

The only goats we've ever had out here and milked were the boers. As I said, they were raised almost completely on browse and their milk was sooooo creamy and delicious. I was very surprised. Most of the goat milk I've tasted is from goats mostly on grain, but I have tasted some from other herds that eat like ours and their milk was also very good. Maybe I'm just too used to store bought "milk" that I'd think anything tastes better. It didn't taste like I was drinking spruce juice, so I was thrilled. ;D I have heard that spruce makes the milk taste bad, but we didn't find that to be the case. Hope it's not a problem with our new bunch we're getting. We'll just have to get used to it. Certainly not going to fly out countless planeloads of feed for them. The whole purpose is to simplify life and be more independent. I know we won't get near as much milk as if they were on grain, but for us, it's well worth it to milk more goats to get the milk we want, and not have to spend much money doing it.

When we had chickens out here year round, and a few broody ones, we had to fly food out for them for the winter, and they free ranged completely all summer. When we calculated exactly how much we spent on food alone (not housing or any other expenses), and the number of eggs in a year, we found that the yearly average cost for a dozen eggs was just over $4 a dozen. That's just not worth it for us. If we had to do basically the same things for goats, we wouldn't have them, but with chickens there just isn't much choice in the winter. I'd rather do the extra work of taking care of more healthy goats than spend extra money on them.

We've also let our buck run with our does, and plan on doing it this time. I've read exactly what you said about it making the milk taste bad, but we did not find that to be the case at all. Maybe it's because they just have so much room out here. I don't know. Also, the folks we know who feed their goats like we do also let their bucks run with their does, and don't have off tasting milk. I'm sure it happens because so many people have said it has happened to them. Fortunately, we have not experienced it. If it does, we'll certainly have to separate them.

It's always so good hearing about other folks' experiences with goats, and having so many resource people around to answer questions. I'm sure looking forward to getting our new goats and learning more. I'm most excited about being able to give our boys fresh raw milk ;D instead of the powdered milk . Oh, and I'm going to check out those web sites, too. Thanks for the links and the info!

Jenny

[Washkeeton]

Silveraurora how do these goats fair on browse like Jenny was talking about or do the folks fly in food for them? What about the weather. I wont be able to have a heated barn. How would they do in the valley protected from the wind in a shed with out heat? You talk about the cheese from them what about butter? I am debating breeds right now. Was thinking alpine or alpine/boer cross.

Jenny where are you getting yours from and what kinds of goats are you getting?

[Jenny]

Hi Wash. I know you weren't asking me about the heated barn for goats, but I'll tell you how we did it anyway. We had a relatively small house for the goats and chickens all in one. Since they were mostly in it only at night, it didn't need to be all that big. They browsed/free ranged during the day, unless the weather was really bad. There was a single wall separating the chickens and goats. The ceiling was just high enough for us to walk in. We insulated the outside walls and ceiling. On cold mornings when I went in to let them out, I was amazed at the temperature difference inside their house. On really cold nights, the chickens crowded up next to the goat side of the wall, and the goats slept close to the chickens. Their mutual wall was nice.

Most of the goats we're getting are alpines. One is half Tog. One of the alpines we're getting just kidded --- two bucklings who are half saanan. All white and large. I was told they will probably be just like their daddy, a very large saanan. We're planning to wether them and use them as pack goats later. Will probably do that with most of our bucklings for the first couple of years. In looking for goats, I've talked with lots of folks lately who have been crossing their alpines and saanens with boer. They say the does that are crosses like that --- 1/2 boer or a little less, produce richer milk and get more cheese per gallon than does without any boer in them. Don't know first hand, though.

I'm getting the goats from two different herds. One woman has been in goats for many years and has some health problems so is selling/giving away all hers. Don't think she has any more left, but I could check. The other folks I think still have some for sale, but some aren't really the best. They're not having any trouble selling them, but since we're not in a position to really build up starting with mediocre stock, we wanted to start with better goats, even though we're having to pay a little more. I was just told yesterday that she has one that's Alpine with 1/8 boer --- airplane ears. Not sure what she was bred to, but the woman I talked to thought she might have been bred to a La Mancha. I was just trying to picture her kids ---- would they have little bitty airplane ears??? I'm sure they'll be very cute. We had very good pack goats. Both were half la mancha. One was half saanen and the other was half alpine. Had the size more like the saanen and alpine respectively.

I'll check on the other goats and pm you with names/phone numbers if you want.

Jenny

[silveraurora]

washkeeton said:

Silveraurora how do these goats fair on browse like Jenny was talking about or do the folks fly in food for them?

It depends what you want your milk to taste like. They do wonderful on browse, but a dairy goat also needs a very delicate balance of vitamins and minerals to support their immune system and the demands of milking. Browse in general is fine, but browse of quality is terribly limited in the fall/winter/spring. I wouldn't depend on it for their main source of nutrition but instead as a supplement, good fiber, and certain health benefits. We always give our does who are ready to freshen and after freshening willow branches for the 'aspirin-like' qualities. I would still buy a concentrate grain ration like Purina Goat Chow and Purina Goat Minerals - one compliments the other and helps prevent thiamine deficiences (goat polio) and provides the selenium we don't have up here. Also it adds the A, D, and E that is not available in the darkest part of the year. No different than humans up here, we all get cabin fever or seasonal dysfunction from lack of sunlight, and it also affects the goats. Browse is good but they would have to be able to browse 24/7/365 to get enough energy, and your milk production would go down from it's maximum possibilities.



What about the weather. I wont be able to have a heated barn. How would they do in the valley protected from the wind in a shed with out heat?

They would do ok. You may see ear tips frostbitten at -20 tho, so I'd rather see a shelter that is made or surrounded with bales of hay or straw and a top of the same for added insulation if you can't build an insulated enclosed goat house which would be the best.

You talk about the cheese from them what about butter? I am debating breeds right now. Was thinking alpine or alpine/boer cross.

ND's are by far the highest producers of butterfat and protein. Go to www.adga.org and look up Top Ten producers by breed under Production Testing - for example
adga.org/DHIR/ABLv.51.htm

Under the Top Ten Alpine for butterfat, the highest percentage listed is only 5.2%. My highest on test here was 8.1%. That's a huge difference when you're making cheese or butter. Let's see if I can copy and paste some of 2004's ND breed Top Ten results from the AGS website:

OWNER
TITLE
NAME OF DOE
AGE
HT
DAYS
MILK
BF %
SCORE

1
Kowalik, A & A

Lost Valley B'Bop *D
1.06
21 1/8
69
3.2
9.3
54.62

2
Kowalik, A & A

Lost Valley Treasure 3*D
1.09
18 6/8
18
3.4
7.5
48.14

2
Payne

Body Shops Racquel's Welch 2*D
3.04
21 5/8
135
2.2
7.5
38.02

3
Payne
MCh
Caesar's Villa HT Ecstasy 8*D
4.02
21 5/8
135
2.9
7.3
47.09

3
Boger

Caesar's Villa FZ First Class 3*D
1.11
19 4/8
15
2.8
7.3
39.06

4
Etherington
ARMCh
Rosasharn's Ume 4*D
2.11
21 1/8
24
4.5
7.0
61.27

4
Etherington

Piddlin Acres Pandora's Box 2*D
3.10
21
20
4.4
7.0
59.72

From this you can see that the highest on test was 9.3%, the next is 7.5%, and so on.

If you want to make butter, put the milk into glass jars in the fridge for 4-5 days. By day 5 the butterfat tends to go to the top, and you can skim that off. There will still be BF and Protein solids in the main milk because it doesn't separate like cow's milk does. Save the whey leftover, mix with the balance of the milk in the jars, and make Mozzarella or Ricotta with it.

Silveraurora

[Freeholdfarm]

I milked my Boer X Oberhasli doe for over a year, and found that her milk was as rich as milk from the Kinder goats -- which is just about as rich as the Nigerian Dwarfs that SilverAurora has. Opal had triplets this year, and ended up milking around 14 pounds a day at peak. At eleven months fresh last winter, she was still giving over a quart a day, so she did pretty well at hanging in there on the milk production. No way to have her on test here, though, as the local goat people don't have a test group anymore.

If I was going back up there, and I may someday (wish I could join the Alaska goat owners yahoo group, but I'm not in Alaska right now), I would take with me several part-Boer does, preferably crossed with Alpine, Saanen, or Oberhasli. Also a couple of buck kids of the same breeding. The larger body size would help them handle the cold in the winter. They would be good milkers, with very rich milk (and good cheese yields), and also decent meat animals. And they would be useful for packing or pulling a sled. I might have to have a small patch of grain for them (to avoid having to purchase and ship feeds), in order to keep the milk coming longer, but it isn't too difficult to manage a quarter of an acre or so of grain. Barley grows in the Interior; oats might grow all right in warmer parts of the state; field peas should also grow well there. And, of course, root crops and cabbages could be used to supplement the winter browse.

Kathleen