land considerations: what to look for?

[brent]

Hi everyone,
I am looking at dozens of different parcels of land in Alaska and want to know what you folks think are the most important features. Such as closeness of water supply, trees for building and heat, wind direction, strength, protection from and sun exposure. Not to mention hunting and fishing opportunities. Also not to be left out would be ease of access. Of course the view would also have to be thrown in there but a view doesn't keep you warm or your belly full but it would make some unpleasant days more enjoyable. I think most of these questions are what most of us are looking for but I just want to hear your guys thoughts on what's the most important to you. I would think that the folks that are already living in the bush or have lived in the bush can pass on some life saving info here to the rest of us green horns.
thanks,
brent

[Washkeeton]

To start with water, a good drinking water supply close by is first and for most with out it you are nothing and cant survive. With the water comes the wildlife. A lot of times you may never have to go very far to hunt. Depending how remote you want to be if remote not only will you want to hunt but you will want to fish also. Salmon is a diet mainstay. How hard or how far to where you can run a net, fish wheel, dip net, or what ever from where you are? There are places like here where I live and work that the wind blows for days, weeks and even up to a month with out decreasing either night or day. It has been blowing for 8 days straight here and not letting up and blowing at up to 50 mph with gusts up to 80. (it is spring). ease of access is nice depending on how remote you want to be. trees to build a cabin with would be nice but so would a lot of forest near by for wood to burn to keep you warm. South side of a hill side vs the north if you can. makes for the snow to melt faster. Better and less dark if you are farther north. (we were on the north side of the hill in fairbanks. seemed more dark in the winter than in town on the south side) view would be the last thing on my list. jmho

[brent]

Hi Washkeeton,
Thanks for the input. Pretty much you have stated the most important needs in the same order I was thinking. I haven't figured out the fishing regs. for nets yet, seems like they state stuff that only confuses you even more. I'll figure it out and I can contact them (dnr) if need be. I didn't quite understand the comment about the light and dark though. Are you saying its lighter in the winter farther north? Say Fairbanks area compared to Skwentna area? I know that its lighter on the south side compared to the north side of a hill or mountain, so I didn't grasp what you were saying. Sorry, can you explain that section again? Thanks.
brent

[Washkeeton]

The farther north you go the less sun light you have. The shortest day in the southern part of the state is 5 or so hours. If you go to barrow you will have no sun or inkling of a sun from Nov to Feb. In other words the sun goes down in november and comes up in Feb. When I lived in Fairbanks (the shortest day was 3 hours.) I lived on the north facing side of the hills and worked on the south side of the hills. There by in the winter when it is at its coldest and the sun actually does come out and is not behind the clouds the sun will shine on the south side of the hill where it may not make it high enough in the sky to shine directly on the north side of the hill. You will have the light but not the sun on you. It is a psychy thing. Especially when you spend so much time in the dark.
I live on the north side of the hill here also. Yes I do get direct sun light but it melts so much slower here than if I were on the south. When we were haveing our 40 degree weather in jan. My snow level bearly went down. The south side of the mountain went totally away. If you like direct sun light it is something to consider.

[Jenny]

Certainly want to make sure you have a source of water. We have a little creek that runs through our property, but it dries up usually in July, then freezes early and stays frozen late. Much of the year we had to get water from the lake about a mile away. Several years ago, Chuck found a wonderful spring and built a filter box and put in a pipe. Runs great clear water all year. We have friends about 15 miles away who are the only family on a the lake. The water isn't very good straight out of the lake. Don't know if they ever had it tested, but they use one of those filters that sits on the counter and will hold several gallons of water. Has the three filters inside. I think they buy a new set about once or twice a year. It's a well known brand, but can't think of it right now. All I can think of is a girl's name --- something like Katy, but that's not it. So, even if you don't have the best water, it's still workable most of the time. Can always boil it, but wouldn't want to have to do that forever.

Also need trees. We have plenty on our property for logs and some firewood, but get a permit (free) to cut dead wood from the borough land next to us.

If you want any electricity, then wind is actually a good thing. We put up solar panels in February, but they didn't really do much. We made the mistake of mounting them on the roof. Should have put them on a pole mount that we could move with the sun a few times a day. Live and learn. We'll change it when we get our new house finished, or maybe before. We live where there are lots of trees, so don't get much wind back here, even though on the lake they get almost constant wind. Keeps the bugs down, but they're still bad on the lake, only not as bad as back here. Chuck's getting more trees cleared off our land, so it's getting opened up enough for a wind generator to do some good for us. We bought one a few years ago, and I think Chuck will put it up this summer. It's just soooooo terribly expensive to fly gas out these days to run the generator to charge the batteries. We use oil lamps. The only thing we use electricity for is the satellite modem for internet, and the laptop. Neither pull much power, but in the winter, the solar panels won't even keep up with that. Unless the wind really drives you nuts (some folks just can't stand it) I'd want a place with some wind. Good to have the trees for shelter and a wind break, too though. Our neighbors on the lake hardly ever have to run their generator. They have the solar panels out in the open, plus a wind generator. They run lights, a small water pump, inside toilet and shower, stereo, computer, etc. Their wind generator spins all the time, so they spend very little on gas.

For food, we like having a garden, so if lots of wild things grow, including berries in the area, you'll probably be able to garden. Different things will grow better in different parts of the state, but you can plant a garden almost anyplace up here. Lori is our new gardening moderator. I'm sure she'll be able to help you out there. Once you decide where you're going to move, she should be able to provide you with some resources or direct you to someone with gardening experience in that area.

Fish is sure nice. Would love to have some around here. We, like lots of folks in AK pretty much live off moose or caribou (some even have both). We eat lots of beaver, and porcupine if we have to and if we find any. So, learn as much as you can about the area for animals and the hunting, fishing and trapping regs.

Oh, find out about taxes. Also, who else is in the area. Some folks have moved into a remote area, then when they go hunting or trapping, they get harassed, even if they're on their own land because somebody else has been using it. That sort of thing can be harder to find out unless you live in the area awhile before you actually buy land there.

I wouldn't buy land without seeing it first. Some folks find something on the internet, talk to the owner or real estate agent, then just buy without seeing it. When they get here, they may or may not be happy with it.

Also, this may not be important to you, but you may want to try and find out if you'll be able to get phone and internet service to the area. We can get fixed wireless for phone, but no internet. So we had to get a satellite dish and modem for internet. That will work in MOST, but not all places. If it's something you'll want, I'd talk to a couple of folks who sell and install them to get an idea of how to tell if it will work where you're planning to live. For us, we're just barely able to get it. If the hill behind us was any taller, we wouldn't have internet even with satellite.

Well, you've probably thought of most of those things. Just some of my thoughts.

Jenny

[brent]

thanks for the info. good stuff you guys said.
the 2 areas of the state that I'm looking at both have water within a 1/4 of the land I like. I am lucky to have found land in areas I've already been real close to and I have drank from the water there so I know it was good when I was there 3 yrs. ago. my biggest concern is the tree issue. I don't remember the quantity or quality of the trees there. I don't want to get land and find out its a high hilltop with the nearest trees way over yonder. I figure I'll have to move trees to the building site I just don't want to have to move them a long ways. I suppose I should just figure on flying up there and looking at it, its just I didn't want to spend $1000. in flights to take a picture. from where I live I can get a flight to anchorage for about $450. and then another $350. for a flight to see the land. I used to fly with Rust's alot and know some of the pilots (don't know if they remember me) and trust them. I thought about just sending them some disp. cameras and a topo map and gps cord. and see if they would buzz the area and take photos for me. I know I would still have to pay for the flight but it would save me the flight to anchorage. guess I should just call them and ask. any thoughts on that idea?
brent
p.s. Jenny, when are you having your goats flown out? one of the areas I'm looking at is only 18 miles from you (by crows flight) want to split the cost of the flight to have them delivered? pm me if your interested.

[Terri]

I have never lived in the bush.

That being said, I DO have an opinion! You see, I am not as young as I used to be, and health problems have crept in.

I am gratefull that I have water and heat easily available. I do not know what I would do if I needed water and my body decided that it was not up to any work. It is not a matter of being tired: when my body shuts down it really shuts down!

If the water is half a mile away, what will you do when you need it but do not have the strength to get it? I can always open a package of crackers for dinner if I must, but water and wood cannot be done in that way.

[Terri]

OH! I suppose wood does not matter as much, as it is cut ahead of time and kept handy to the cabin. But, unless you have a cistern, water when you are too ill to haul it any distance would be a biggie!

[ugashikrobert]

Brent:
I just made a rather long winded post on the remote land thread that may apply here. Keep in mind different people put different priority's on things. The quality of an experience up here is directly related to what you are used to.

[alwayshome]

Brent,
I do know that the USGS has aeiral photos of most of the state. Don't know if that helps much to know how big the trees are in any given area. If I could go back 20 yrs to when we were selecting a spot I would worry more about situation ie north or south facing, than we did. We actually ended up living in a cold hole. In alaska cold settles in low areas. This may not apply to southeast but is certainly a factor in the Interior. Just a thought.

[Jenny]

alwayshome said:

If I could go back 20 yrs to when we were selecting a spot I would worry more about situation ie north or south facing, than we did. We actually ended up living in a cold hole. In alaska cold settles in low areas. This may not apply to southeast but is certainly a factor in the Interior. Just a thought.

We live in south central AK, but I sure know what you mean about "living in a cold hole". We are on a south facing slope (and it is a doozy of a slope, too ;D ) but the cold air sure does settle up against the north uphill side of our cabin. Wish we'd put the stove in the middle of the cabin or on the north side. But, we put the stove on the SW side and our "office area" is on the NE side. Oh, is it ever cold over in this little corner when we're working on the computer at night. Our new house will be up the hill a little, a bit closer to the top, on a more level area. And it will be one story instead of having a loft, which will help. Also will have the main living area in the middle of the house with the cookstove and the heating stove separated to even out the heat better. I'm really glad now that we built this "temporary" house. Otherwise we'd have made many more mistakes. I'm sure we'll still end up wishing we'd done things a little different, though.

Jenny

[Washkeeton]

It never quits amazing me the difference in temp from the south side of my house to the north side. I am out of town a ways but it is really cold on the north side. The south has the sun. I have windows and it helps warm up the kitchen and one bd rm but my dd always complained that her room on the north side was cold no matter what. When I had the wood stove put in i had it put in the coldest corner of the house. On the north corner where the wind hits the hardest. It does well to heat the living area but not the bedrooms. When we are only using wood every one migrates to the living room to sleep. lol I was told after all was said and done had I put the stove on the long wall of the living room by the hall way it would have heated the house better but where I put it it works just to keep the corner it is in warm. When I build a cabin I will put the heat source in the center of the cabin like we had it in fairbanks. Worked well and heated the whole place. (burnt us out actually)

[brent]

I really like all of your imput. They all are great points. I was thinking of a small loft but the more I have read here and elsewhere I have changed my mind on that. I know about the stove being located in the center if possible and about south facing instead of north facing. I am just concerned about the tree thing. I did find some help on Google Earth, its a free download of arerial photos of the world. Its current within the last 3 yrs. so that does help me. The only problem with it is over most of Alaska it will only focus from about 4 miles up. Its the way google has decided which areas of the world to have more focused at this time. Some cities you can almost see your neighbor out in the backyard close. If you guys haven't downloaded it yet its pretty neat and useful, its a long download if you're like me with dial up (about 38 minutes) but well worth it.
Until next time (still looking), brent

[Washkeeton]

The cabin we were in when in fairbanks was 2 stories. We had the oil drip stove almost directly under the stair case. The warm air went up stairs well and heated the second floor great. Had the landlord put vents in the bed rooms the cool air would have circulated well and we would have had a heating system to beat all. The floor vents would have made that place A#1. As it was it was always warm and hot a lot of the time. there was 2 floors in this one.